Stursberg: There’s more to intelligent radio than classical music
by Richard Strusberg
Executive Vice President, English Media
Well, there’s certainly been considerable apprehension about what we have in the works for CBC Radio 2. If one was to believe everything written by columnists, bloggers and in letters to the editor, you’d think our national network was killing off classical music and replacing it with pap.
Well, fear not. Classical music will remain alive and well on Radio 2. However, we also are going to open our airwaves for lovers of other high-quality Canadian music that, scandalously, is largely ignored by private commercial radio. And not a moment too soon.
People love classical music, yes. But our listeners, as well as the broader public and musicians across the country, tell us that they also love other kinds of music too, as long as it’s high quality. They want to hear music that represents the diversity of genres in their country, its people and its regions. They want a programming that’s relevant to them.
Just consider this: Of the approximately 30,000 pieces of music released each year in Canada, only about 240 receive regular airplay on Canadian radio stations. We intend to take advantage of this vast body of Canadian music that is otherwise ignored and make the best of it available to our listeners in an intelligent, creative and engaging way.
This, in fact, is the embodiment of our mandate.
Classical music will remain the dominant genre on Radio 2. (In September, we’ll introduce a daily five-hour classical program to be heard weekdays, along with our four-hour classical performance show on Sunday afternoons, and the venerable Saturday Afternoon at the Opera. We’re working on alternative, high-impact approaches to showcasing emerging classical performers, and were going to continue commissioning new music across the country and providing a showcase for new works.)
But the important point (and the one we’ve been taking the heat on) is that we also are introducing other kinds of music into the classical mix: jazz, contemporary singer/songwriters, roots, world and folk. Much of this will be found in our new morning and afternoon drive programs. Contrary to the naysayers, none of with will be pap; none of it will be schlock and, most assuredly, none of it will be dumbed down. By September, we will have increased our overall Canadian content by approximately 20 percent.
Let’s not confuse quality of music with style of music. CBC is committed to introducing Canadian to quality Canadian music. This is the key value the derives our decision-making. We’re going to go deeper and exposed a tremendous amount of Canadian talent that deserves to be heard.
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I hope that’s your typo and not his.
Mr. Stursberg, I must respectfully disagree with your comments. It is precisely the morning and afternoon commute when myself and fellow commuters need our classical music relief. I suspect there will be an increase in road rage incidents in Metro Vancouver and Metro Toronto once you trash Disc Drive and Music & Co. And we won’t even have the pleasure of classical programs in the evenings as you have eliminated those as well. I think you need to rethink your fear of classical programming. Please also consider that your loyal listeners won’t be jumping to rescue your organization the next time the politicians threaten to cut your funding.
Let’s not overly simplify the significant changes that are taking place at Radio2. We are losing content at times that we currently enjoy; early morning, drive home and after supper, not to mention Eric Friesen’s Ottawa produced show Studio Sparks.
My wife and I are likely fairly representative of the customer base that you have so flippantly disregarded. We are both nearing the 50 age mark, have been avid CBC radio listeners since our University days and are very concerned with the upcoming and recent changes to programming. We work all day so the 10 to 3 time slot does nothing for us. So we are getting Saturday afternoon at the Opera, which is great and a mix of classical content Sunday afternoon. Sorry, that doesn’t cut it. Luckily in Ottawa we have access to Radio Canada and other private radio that provides classical content, as well as free content off the web.
Regarding the need to satisfy emerging customer needs, in the real world (i.e. corporate environment where you actually have to work with customers to derive revenue and survive), companies work very hard at meeting existing customer needs and also growing the customer base. They don’t simply toss aside current customer requirements and start selling to a new group; this would be financial suicide. Marketing 101 suggests that the cost of obtaining a new customer greatly exceeds the cost of keeping an existing customer. This clearly isn’t the case for CBC; you still get your constant funding from the taxpayer regardless of customer satisfaction, you hire some new managers and then go off and make significant changes without consulting your customer base. If you really believe that this is the best strategic route to take, then can I propose the following:
1) Give up the revenue associated with the current customer base that you have decided to forgo (I would be willing to assist in the analysis of funding per customer to assist with this exercise);
2) Publish on this site the costs associated with this strategic initiative, including the cost of airtime at fair market value of the extensive time devoted to flogging all of the new shows (please come up with a new promo for that Tonic show, it is really getting tired);
3) Publish on this site the regular BBM ratings for the new and re-vamped shows, and
4) Put your job and your management team’s jobs on the line; if costs and BBM ratings to not meet a certain % of target, you all gracefully resign and we get the old content back! Again, this is the norm in the corporate world; you develop plans to meet customer needs and if you fail, see you later.
I would appreciate your comments on my suggestions and please feel free to share my note with your management team.
Regards,
Michael Leslie
Ottawa, Ontario.
Of course, this being a CBC blog, the entries are always in favour of the CBC Radio 2 changes.
Right on Michael and James!!!
Did anyone else see the CBC’s full page ad in the Saturday Globe & Mail touting the new Radio 2? They had lists of people who thought that the changes being made were terrific…funny, I didn’t see the name of one single classical music artist on those lists!!! It is really sad that CBC seems so ready to throw away the audience it has. 10-3 as a classical music slot…brilliant!!! I don’t know about the rest of you, but that is when I am out and about. We here in Vancouver seem to be especially hard hit by the changes (not just to Radio 2, but to Radio one and television). No more CBC Vancouver Orchestra, no more Disc Drive, no more Intelligence or J-Pod…
Mr. Stursburg, I don’t listen to classical music exclusively. I like all kinds of music (well, ok, not rap/hip-hop ). However, I loved being able to tune into Radio 2 anytime during the day to enjoy a fix of classical music and to be educated as a listener. You are destroying the CBC that I and most other listeners love.
“Let’s not confuse quality of music with style of music [...] Contrary to the naysayers, none of [it] will be pap; none of it will be schlock and, most assuredly, none of it will be dumbed down. ”
That’s not very honest. Style of music and quality of music *are* related. I’m sure even the most cerebral pop musician will agree that writing or performing a pop or poppy jazz song takes nowhere near the skill and thoughtfulness of ‘classical’ music. Therefore, replacing classical programming and commentary with pop is, by definition, “dumbing down”.
The distinction you are not making is between art music and entertainment music.
What you call “classical” music should really be referred to as art music. From the ancient music of Greece, Mesopotamia, China, through the Renaissance to the composers of today, there has been music that was created by extremely proficient and virtuosic specialists (composers) with the primary purpose of artistic expression.
Entertainment music, on the other hand, includes both folk music, which has always existed, and the more recent popular music, which has a primarily economic incentive. Now, of course, these have artistic value of their own, but they take much less time to master, much less imagination to create, and much less time, effort and money to perform.
I enjoy both kinds of music. I listen to a lot of pop music for entertainment and background noise, and enjoy hearing and playing folk music because it’s fun and exciting. However, art music is music for music’s sake. It is analogous to fine art in the visual arts and ballet and modern dance. Fine art, whether it be Van Gogh, Emily Carr or an Emily Carr art school graduate, *is* of more cultural value than the comic strips in your Sunday paper, even ifmany Canadians would rather look at the latter. Likewise, a Scarlatti sonata played by Angela Hewitt or a Imand Raminsh choral piece is more culturally relevant to Canada than Diana Krall’s latest jazz standard interpretation or Feist’s latest top 40 hit.
Radio 2 should be about presenting and educating Canadians about our art music culture, and our artistic heritage in general. Sure, there’s a place for artful jazz music, or late-night bleedovers from Radio 3. Sure, more cultural diversity and more African or Chinese art music would not be out of place. ButRadio 2 should not be about cating to the lowest common denominator and giving people what they would listen to anyway.
Finally, let me put it this way: On an ‘easy listening’ commercial station or on a Radio One afternoon show, Diana Krall and Joni Mitchell are intelligent and classy.
On a nationally funded station that is supposed to be a repository of Canadian art and culture, they are pap.
David Gill, 28, Vancouver, B.C.
I do believe that you are confusing quality and style. Both are subject to personal opinion. All Canadian music is not necessarily high quality any more than all American or all English music is. If you want to increase the Canadian content I hope that you will find enough high quality home-grown tunes to fill out your 24 hours.
I wonder why the majority of the 30,000 pieces of Canadian music that are not given airplay on the many radio stations, is it perhaps they lack some quality? if so who is going to pick the pieces to play? you or me? I’m a listener.
So many times you tell us that “they want to…..”, who are these “they”? and how did you discover their needs so accurately? “Our listeners…tell us” NOBODY ASKED ME! I’m a listener, I am a Canadian, nobody asked me what I wanted to hear. I haven’t called you and told you what music I want to hear. You didn’t ask my spouse either.
How can you call classical music the dominent genre for Radio 2 when there are only 5 hours in 24 devoted to that genre, that’s just over 20% on weekdays. Tell us what are we going to hear on the other 19 hours?
Please may I request less mix and more focus. I am not suggesting that you should not have jazz, roots, world and folk, but can The Amateur Hour, The Polka King Show, The Celine Spectacular and Fiddlers Fancy be far away.
Can I be assured that these comments and questions will get a response?
Does this guy have to answer to anyone? How does the chain of command at CBC work, and is the Honourable Josée Verner involved at all?
I am humbled by the eloquence of some of the previous entries, and can only hope that someone out there is listening.
I dream of the day when we will not simply label art that requires thought, study, and repeated exposure to appreciate fully as “elitist”.
Just goes to show how marginalized classical music has become in Canada. Purveyors and producers of this music must do a better job selling it. Schools have got to start teaching music seriously again. Parents have to play classical music in their homes regularly. Otherwise, I guarantee we’ll so through this all over again in ten years when Stursberg the II decides to democratize programming on CBC Radio 2 by soliciting votes, Canadian Idol style.
The very title reminds me of a Flying Karamazov Brothers routine:
“There’s more to the theatre than repetition!”
“There’s more to the theatre than repetition!”
“There’s more to the theatre than repetition!”
“Yeah, but not much!”
So in other words, the plan is to remove something of quality, not obtainable anywhere else on the air (classical music), and replace it with the same news and yap-yap that can be found everywhere else. And the self-congratulating beans at CBC call this “progress”!
Congratulations, Mr. Strusberg. Your U.S. citizenship papers are in the mail.
Matthew B. Tepper,
California, USA
So in other words, the plan is to remove something of quality, not obtainable anywhere else on the air (classical music), and replace it with the same news and yap-yap that can be found everywhere else.
There are no plans to add news or talk to Radio 2. Your quoting skills are impressive, but you might want to work on reading and comprehension.
the cbc wants a younger, less classical audience.
So why did it kill off Brave New Waves?
There are no plans to add news or talk to Radio 2.
None yet, but you can be certain that it will happen, as it is the inevitable pattern. Wait a few months and you will see it sneak in through the back door.
It is sad to see Canada go the way of the U.S. I admire Canada’s distinct identity, and something very great will be lost as Canadian culture is subsumed into the diminishing quality of same in my country.
Matthew B. Tepper,
California, USA
Mr. Stursberg, I read John Doyle’s Globe & Mail columns about his interview with you. You said you want to popularize the CBC. Hence, the cutting of classical music on Radio 2. Here in Vancouver, we do not have access to another Canadian classical music station unless we wish to subscribe to satellite radio. We, however, are better off than folk in the far north of Canada, as we can access National Public Radio from nearby Washington State. Radio one is the place for popular music…you could certainly play more music on Radio one – showcasing Canadian talent that plays popular music. Leave Radio 2 for serious music (what David Gill, above, has called art music) of all kinds – use the BBC radio 3 as your model. That station has classical music on from 1 AM until nearly 10 PM at night. Then it has Jazz, New Music, World Music, and Art and ideas programming. Most particularly, there is classical music for the period of time people are driving to work and during meals. I don’t think that most Radio 2 listeners are asking for only traditional classical works. Most of us are happy to learn about new serious music. I would love to hear a program like The Arts Tonight again (and don’t tell me about Q…it is NOT anything like The Arts Tonight) – and Radio 2 would be a perfect place for such an intelligent approach to all of the arts. It is clear from all the comments on all of the Inside the CBC blogs that it is not just us older folk who are disturbed by your changes – the younger audience you crave is also not happy. Please, please, please…give all of Canada a serious music alternative again.
Radio 2 has already taken a few hits with the previous changes, none for the better. Colour me unconvinced this round will reverse the trend. Come Labour Day there’ll be no more radio listening for me. Thank Apple for the iPod.
This thread has got to have some of the most eloquent commentary on the debasement of Radio 2 (and some on 1) yet. Thank you very much, Michael Leslie and David Gill. Also, Cindy, I agree with your point about The Arts Tonight and “Q” which is now moving to Bold. What do you want to bet that its Radio 1 replacement features even less arts coverage? Three more points:
- excuse us for feeling sceptical that 35 hours per week is not part of a final solution for what David calls art music. We currently stand at about 60 hours of art music (depending on your definitions: do the jazz bits slipped into Disk Drive, Studio Sparks, etc. count? Will you do the same thing during the 10-3 weekday slot or will that be reserved for 100% art music?) Before the last round with Canada Live and Tonic, we were at about 80-85 hours plus the rural folks that only get Radio 1 got some art music content. The trend is down.
- some hoopla over 1 Beethoven Symphony per day does not constitute support. This is the second week in a row where it is now Thursday and there isn’t a peep on the web or on air yet about what’s on Sunday afternoon. Contrast that with constant plugs for Tonic and Canada Live. You snuck this program on the air and counter-programmed it against the popular Cross Country Checkup on Radio 1. You’re setting it up to fail.
- you want a random sample of pap? After hearing a promo for it, I tried the jazz interpretation of Jim Hendrix that ran on Tonic last Saturday. After 10 seconds of Hepcats All Along the Watchtower, I tuned out. Reminiscent of Pat Boone emasculations of black R&B. I don’t know what audience you expect to get with that.
Peter Brandon,
Edmonton
I can only agree with the many folks who have already written. I live in Atlantic Canada and there is no alternative for “Classical” music in this area. When good music is broadcast on Radio 2 come September I will be at work. Apparently some trendy, faceless folks at the CBC will decide for me what good music is beginning on labour day. Are these the same folks who do so now for programmes such as Tonic, which more often than not, I have to turn off because of the easy listening garbage that gets played? I like good jazz but sorry Mr. Stursburg, I don’t hear much of that on this program and I don’t expect it will be an improved situation with more hours to fill.
So then, who will be deciding what good quality, Canadian music is? Is what I currently tune in most evenings at 8:00 p.m. going to be the standard by which the majority of Radio 2′s programming is measured? Uh oh, we’re in trouble. Just because it comes from some place other than a concert hall doesn’t make it good. A lot of the stuff I hear in this time slot isn’t very interesting or stimulating. Sometimes there is an artist who is saying something unique but more often than not it seems like Radio 2 is just trying to sound like every other radio station.
As far as I’m concerned, I think that programming on Radio 2 should at least go back to what it was before the most recent changes. I thought that the mix was O.K. – certainly better than what we have now or are being promised. What’s wrong with playing music that is interesting, stimulating, challenges the listener, and is aired when people can listen to it? Why should I have to forsake my nice sounding sound system to tune into my computer to hear the music I, and many others like?
Actually, Mr. Stursburg, maybe you could make this proposed programming work by having Danielle Charboneau (Sorry Danielle, I can’t find your name on the Radio 2 website anymore to check my spelling) and Robert Harris host all of these new programs. On second thought, neither of these people could continually make silk purses out of sow’s ears, could they?
Mr. Stursberg – you should be replaced before you and your subordinate Philistine yes men and gals succeed in destroying Radio 2 as a jewel of a precious Canadian cultural institution.
How can you just throw away the largest and most significant demographic the present Radio 2 currently enjoys in pursuit of vague hopes you can win new listeners by sounding like private stations ?
What other business would thumb its nose at its existing customer base to try to enter new markets ?
I’m probably sounding like a broken record, but here goes anyway. Radio 3 and Radio 2 need to flip; Radio 3 goes to FM and Radio 2 goes to the web. My ideal Radio 3 (now on FM) would carry national hourly newscasts and possibly local/regional AM/PM shows. 24/7 would focus on the music that’s ignored by the privates. Indie/CanCon/Alternative etc.
Saying that classical music is somehow more sophisticated than any other style of music shows a real lack of depth of knowledge of those other styles. Some may be ‘easy to play’ and simple in its’ construction, but a great deal of it is not. Modern music is just as capable of being ‘art’ and equally (if not more) deserving of airtime; and it’ll happen on my new Radio 3 (now on FM).
I too am nearing the age 50 mark. I don’t want to hear old music on the radio; classical violins OR classic rock. Both are tiring, repetitive and highly overrated.
“Any public broadcaster,” wrote Lord Pilkington about the BBC in 1960, “whose aim is to give the public what it wants, first underestimates that audience, then debauches it!” could be equally relevant to the changes at CBC Radio Two. Rather than commend past excellent programs CBC condemns its successes. Condolences to Mr. Lacroix for the death of the CBC Radio Orchestra while on his watch. Funeral services at 3:00 p.m. on April 20th at the Chan Centre in Vancouver. The orchestra’s termination will be forever known as the legacy of Mark Steinmetz and Jennifer McGuire.
Has anyone considered that the programming changes are all the result of pressure from the federal government on the CBC? The government wants to cut funding to CBC: what better way to justify such cuts than by eliminating Radio Two’s audience? The ongoing changes are certainly going to do just that. I can’t believe that they actually think they’re going to gain listeners with the new shows. I’m sorry, but I can’t help but think of all these changes being like someone’s elderly grandparents taking up break-dancing…..not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that, but it sure ain’t pretty!
I’m sorry, Mike, but you seem to have a deep misunderstanding of what’s occurring here.
“Saying that classical music is somehow more sophisticated than any other style of music shows a real lack of depth of knowledge of those other styles. Some may be ‘easy to play’ and simple in its’ construction, but a great deal of it is not. Modern music is just as capable of being ‘art’ and equally (if not more) deserving of airtime; and it’ll happen on my new Radio 3 (now on FM).”
I enjoy and have a ‘deep’ knowledge of all kinds of music. I’ve also performed multiple genres of music. Yes, there is a small body of pop music which is artistic and is harmonically and technically interesting (interestingly, it is not uncommonly composed and performed by someone with classical training). I agree there should be a Radio 3 for this kind of music, and if not, that there should be a place for it on Radio 2. If you’d actually pay attention, you’d notice that CBC canceled Radio 2′s show that played this kind of music (Brave New Waves) even before it gutted it’s classical programming. I don’t think you’re going to like what CBC has in store for you.
At its best, ‘classical’ or art music quite frankly *is* more sophisticated than other kinds of music. Whether in terms of technique (there are lots of classically trained musicians who moonlight as pop musicians, but not so many pop-trained musicians who moonlight as classical musicians), complexity, depth or sheer scope, it is quite simply set apart from most examples of other music. There is a reason why it has endured throughout the ages while other, more fashionable forms of music have passed away into obscurity.
This isn’t to say that other forms of music aren’t valuable or artistic. In fact, I think a world with only ‘classical’ music would be significantly less interesting. Classical music has always taken inspiration from pop, folk and jazz, much as classical technique and theory has allowed these genres to reach new heights. Art and entertainment are, and always have been, synergistic.
Classical music and classical musicians *are* special, and need to be fostered and celebrated on our nation’s airwaves.
The wild idea that there could be a sinister Machievellian plot to undermine and set up the CBC for drastic funding cuts or privatization if the Tories get their majority, and that current senior CBC management could even be a part of it, or perhaps at best unable to resist it, had actually occurred to me.
What better way to justify no longer supporting CBC TV, for instance, than by pointing to the fact that its new, mindless prime time “reality’ shows, sitcoms and other commercial-like “popular” pap are basically the same kinds of low-brow programming that private TV operators provide, and that, to quote a Conservative mantra, public institutions should not be competing with nor duplicating what is done by the private sector. Though perhaps a bit far fetched to some, this theory would explain the reported stringent budget cuts to traditionally strong CBC areas such as News and Public Affairs, to fund Sturserg’s new attempts to look like an American private network.
The same kind of lowest common denominator dumbing down and commercializing is happening to Radio 2, which seems determined under the present management to drive away its present listenership – - ???? as possible laying of groundwork for the rationale – “See, no one is listening; we can’t justify funding it any longer……..”
Watch out for that axe to fall if we should see, God help Canada, a Harper majority as I think the Tories figure only small numbers of Canadians support CBC and there would be more votes to be gained than lost through trashing it or ending public funding.